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Tuesday, August 14, 2007
Even expats also sian the cost of living liao
Interesting exchange going on in expatsingapore forums. The forumers there are discussing if Singapore is getting too expensive for expats to stay:
Move:
We find it is getting more expensive to live in Singapore. Rent has been skyrocketing. Also, more expenses incurred after GST increase (eg. maid asked for more pay, increase in food prices). Package is now on local deal (not expat deal as when you just first moved here). AUD is now stronger than SGD so effectively earning less than before. Some people we know of have moved back. Got told that it is unlikey that AUD will get weaker against SGD in 5 years. Wondered if people have considered a move back??
We are going home:
We have been here about 2 years and have decided to go home - as it's just not worth living here anymore - true, the low tax rate is great - but we will now have to pay over SGD6,000 a month for a same place we have been paying SGD2500 for the past 2 years and our paychecks have not increased by that much over 2 years. Also with strong AUD against SGD, we are not really that better off in Singapore.Also, the long working hours have started to cause a problem in our marriage (I was working almost 12 hours a day, almost every day at a bank).
We too:
We're going home too. It's not worth it anymore.
not a dollar chaser:
Singapore Inc is all about money. The people are obsessed with it, and you can't do anything without spending some of it. Most conversations here involve money and you will find that even if you think you came here to experience the "culture", your life will be consumed with the thought of money.We're going home too. I don't want my kids growing up in a place that values cash and "prosperity" over all else.
Sensei:
To Only One.........I always say we're memory rich and cash poor. I've worked at various times through ten years, fairly well paid at local rates, but in real terms if you look at my husband's income we're now worse off financially. Circumstances have changed in that he's on a contract basis rather than company employee, but we've chosen to stay away from our home country because, just like you, it's for the experience. He's lived and worked in six Asian countries, I've been in three and we've been happy in each one. And we've been able to travel further afield several times - we think we're really lucky to have done so.Our two kids have had amazing opportunities but have never had that Expat Brat style, we just didn't allow it. Never had a maid (just a cleaner once a week) so the kids had to pull their weight in the house. They didn't have the pocket money that many friends did but it didn't matter, they've grown up into sensible and well educated young adults. And we're comfortable but not rolling in money, despite the perception many people have that Expats are darn near millionaires. I hate it when we visit our home country and they think we're made of money.
To Elizamango, I'd say think VERY carefully before committing to Singapore. I feel you'd enjoy the experience but don't compromise your standard of living. Make sure you have enough for comfortable accommodation, enough to take a few trips around Asia and to get you back to Australia to keep up family/friends ties each year, enough to have a social life without worrying about overspending. And be sure you have very good medical coverage, hospitalisation in Singapore is expensive.
To the OP, we were fortunate in that we had two properties which have been rented out all the time. We'll go back eventually to a roof over our heads in a nice town, a small pension, and we'll have great memories to look back on. But starting out now - well, we'd think twice about it which is sad
One year is enough:
We came to Singapore, as corny as it sounds for the experience also. We wanted to travel and that's what we did. For both of us, it was not a career move, and financially we are not that much better off here as we spend a lot more (on traveling & eating out!).I'd say, if you have a chance to move here, do it - sure the working hours are crazy (I found that most Singaporeans just stayed back to look busy because that's what just everybody seemd to do here) but if you want to and try to make the best out of it, you will enjoy it.
professional expats:
We hold EU passports but had not lived in any country for more than 5 years for the last 30 years. There is no country that is "home" to move back to. It might be more expensive in Singapore now than in the last year but we are still saving far more than if we were to be posted back to Europe. We were just there for 4 weeks for the summer and eating out cost a fortune and taxes are a nightmare. For those who don't have an expat package and have a home to go back to, I guess leaving would be a better option for you. Having said that, I know some teachers at our children's school who are pretty content with their relatively humble packages. How big a slice of the pie does one want and when one gets it, can one have it and eat it too?
Dr Phil:
professional expats, you miss the point.Most Expats accept their package and those who do not materially benefit greatly, accept the trade-offs which gives them a beautiful country, lifestyle, security, first-rate services etc.
Most Expats rely on the confidence Singapore has earned to negotiate an Expat package and whatever the margins they feel sure there will be no unexpected upheavals.
Similarly with business, contract negotiations require confidence or stability in many things such as currency, interest rates, exchange rates etc.
When during the course of one year we get "stiffed" for 40-100% rent increases and we have really no option, then that is underhanded and unfair and shakes ones confidence in the infrastructure here. Particularly when a small minority benefit compared to an overwhelming majority of people who are relatively poorer (that includes 99.9% local population).
Its not the quantum of the loss but the principle.
Spot on!:
This is spot on - there is no question about the risk of being an expat - but moving to a self-proclaimed First world country and seeing third world market conditions is a rather worrying situation.There is a strong denial in government circles - the view is that there is more cash coming from tourists than from expats... but there is also a very limited understanding of market dynamics... once people start leaving, replacing them won't happen - companies will post people elsewhere. We've already stopped bringing families here due to the cost increase of both rental and schools... and this is not the end of it...
Well said:
Well said! Ask any foreigner here today (renting, ie, most) how they feel and the answer will be anything from 'shocked and amazed' to 'disappointed'. Foreigners aren't going to accept the 100% increase in living costs that has happened in under 12months. The majority are planning to leave based on my conversations.And yes, then expat rents will fall ... followed by prices.
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 12:05 PM in Random Rants | Permalink
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» Expats also sian the cost of living liao in Singapore from Singabloodypore
Interesting exchange going on in expatsingapore forums spotted by MrBrown. The forumers there are discussing if Singapore is getting too expensive for expats to stay...
We too:
We're going home too. It's not worth it anymore.
Spot on!:
Th... [Read More]
Tracked on Aug 16, 2007 12:40:27 AM
Comments
Good ah, finally i can have a cheaper rent for my place. Quick quick move out, even though i am a foreigner, but i am not a expat (skin color not white enough).
Posted by: "Dr." Bob | Aug 14, 2007 1:12:57 PM
Well, I think the main problem here is the rising rental costs.It's simple economics. Demand and Supply. The demand has been rising due to the en bloc fever that led to rising speculative demand. All of a sudden, people are buying houses as an 'investment'. With this huge increase in demand, housing prices have increased unreasonably leading to rise in rental costs. Expats feel the pinch and move back. Demand fluctuates. Supply increases as after this en bloc fever, more houses are created. When numerous houses are unsold after completion of new residential properties, we face a crunch or a bubble burst. Property stocks fall driving down the STI and brokers commit suicide. End of story.
Posted by: Fried Man | Aug 14, 2007 1:35:05 PM
mr brown
what were you doing in simlimsquare?
looking for apartment for ang mors har?
how come you used your nokia n95 without bluetooth har?
nokia no supply you free bluetooth eh?
properties rocked sky high
do you all know the real reasons?
simply because in a year or 2
we are going to have 35,000 foreign talents
landing on our shores to prop up the IR projects
not ordinary bangela workers hor
Posted by: moshedyan | Aug 14, 2007 4:14:32 PM
Hi, I think it's ironic that the 'foreigners' arrive in Singapore for the 'money' (clearly - from what they have posted, 'not worth it anymore' etc and complaining about rents) when obviously it was because their companies paid for their rents/car allowance etc which was what ALLOWED them to stay in Singapore in the first place. If these foreigners are given a 'local' package and then want to rent an apt in Orchard Road, then clearly, it ain't going to work out, is it?
Another thing, it appears as if it's the Australian expats (from the comments about AUD being strong than the SGD) who are feeling the pinch now, as compared to the Europeans. We live in Europe now, and I can tell you that when we go back to Singapore for a holiday, everything is cheaper (transport, food). The European cost of living is much higher than Singapore (standards not necc higher though!) and so for the Europeans, it is cheaper, and more 'worth it' to live in Singapore.
Finally, a general point: People who want to live in foreign lands need to make their decisions based on more than just 'money'. There was a post that said they'd not swap the life they have in Singapore (first-class service, safety etc) for life back home(whereever that is). That is the point...it's NOT just about money. It can't be. Call me naive, but that won't be the reason why we'd move. That wasn't the reason why we moved in the first place.
Posted by: Pam | Aug 14, 2007 5:25:24 PM
Hey Pam,
how to compare Europe with Singapore?
Cheaper but do you know Europe is more fun to live than Singapore? For that alone, its worth to be more expensive. Everything you learned come from the west. All your skills and knowledge. For that alone, Europe cost is of course higher and justified. I wan to laugh at you when you compare things just by the price tag. So shallow.
Europe has a lot of wellfare and its safe and high standard. Higher. So, again it is justified for higher cost. Dun worry singpaore is heading the same direction.
You no money? Borrow from me, I money lender business man.
Posted by: DenisNg_CB | Aug 14, 2007 5:50:07 PM
Expats I know flew here from either Germany or France to take advantage of the cost of living compared to Germany / France. They are generally still europe headcount and taxed there, as I understand. But they still save on cost of living, though higher now, which is still lower than europe.
You may be surprised that Europeans are also concerned about savings.
Now that rentals skyrocket, I hope this makes them feel more at home. :)
Posted by: expatpaylesstax | Aug 14, 2007 6:39:05 PM
better all go back lah. here job not enough. Gov see for urself! Only singaporean have higher chance of staying.
Posted by: NoFear | Aug 14, 2007 9:02:35 PM
In my opinion, it doesn't really matter what things are like in other countries unless migration is a serious option, which is isn't for me. Fact is that it has become darn near impossible to move out and have your own place here, no matter how small, how ulu or how cha-chak a cockroach-infested hovel you are willing to settle for.
Beyond just losing the expat community, this is causing an overgrown adolescent generation; the 30 year-olds who still stay with their parents and act as though they're in secondary school. I believe this is causing the nation as a whole to become quite mentally immature, because they haven't been shoved out of the nest to fend for themselves. It's hard to know what true hardship is when Mommy and Daddy are always there for you. It's hard to develop maturity when you've never had to take care of yourself completely, from doing your own housework to living your life independently. It's hard to have any kind of an adult life when you have to sneak around your parents and your siblings (so romantic, hor?).
Maybe that's part of the plan after all. If we become an island of infants, then maybe we will be good little children who can be pacified with silly little things, our easily molded minds tweaked as and when needed for the greater good.
Posted by: nanashee | Aug 14, 2007 10:22:34 PM
As someone who lived in Sg for 4 years, I think nanashee's got a really good point there.
I no longer live in Singapore and the difference in teenagers is remarkable. Kids here start working part-time at the age of 16, they contribute to paying for their own things, their mobile phones, their clothes etc. It just makes you realise the value of money when you're directly affected by every tax increase, or increase prices. Without wanting to generalise (I also had to support myself when I started uni), at the age of 18, a lot of them are out of the house, taking out student loans to fund their degree, rent and so on. They see themselves as adults. They are more street-wise and somehow I think it makes them take interest in their local community, as well as national and global policies. They take greater ownership of their lives, their community, their ability to question and instigate change, and ultimately their future.
Singapore's a wonderful country in many ways. However, as pointed out in the forum, a 100% increase in living costs within 12 months would not have been tolerated in any other peaceful nation.
Posted by: shin | Aug 15, 2007 1:59:34 AM
Nanashee and Shin have very good observation on Sporeans vs the world. I work with angmos, and in general, at the same age group, they are more matured than Sporeans. What is the point of being so kiasu in our education system and pack so much academic knowledge into our brains when we are not matured, not daring, not confident enough to speak up. In this competing world, Sporeans really lose out. And non-Sporeans have a head-start a couple of yrs earlier. I don't mind if it is just 1 yr. For the country, I don't mind 1 yr of service. What to do? LL lor.
Posted by: No. 1 Ah Beng | Aug 15, 2007 11:31:01 AM
indeed our rentals has gone up
too fast
even my brother's condo in tampinese
last rented @ $1100 lucky rentee go home
today he got it rented @ $2100
which is terrible
it the same size as a hdb 3 room flat
ok granted it got 1 small room listed as 4 rooms
the only thinggie out of it
is the hunmangoes swimming pools
which looked liked a holiday seaside resort
which is why my brother bought that condo
it cost him last time 2 $750,000
Posted by: moshedyan | Aug 15, 2007 11:33:02 AM
I personally don't like singapore. I moved here for the experience like most but I can't believe how boring and uncultured this place is. It's almost like a dictatorship. God knows you can't go a day without 'Singapore' being shouted in your ear. There's absolutely no creativity in this country either. Everything's borrowed. Like their own London eye, everything here is modern but never new. Getting a car here is a waste of money so you have to rely on taxis. The drivers are so dumb and the worst drivers - probably in the world. If anyone's thinking of moving here make sure you're getting at least $300,000 a year otherwise it's not worth paying a large chunk of your salary on finding a comfortable home. Ok taxes are low but if you're self employed in England for example you can offset quite a lot of the tax. This isn't possible in Singapore. I have to say also that I was spending a lot less in the uk. This country is very very very boring so you'll probably end up as an alcoholic by the time you leave and trust me at £5 per pint it's going to get expensive.
Posted by: ben | Aug 15, 2007 11:56:48 AM
Dear DenisNg
The reason why I was comparing based on 'money' was because the ORIGINAL post was going on about the cost of living in Singapore, specifically the rental cost in Singapore... so, please read before you go around accusing others of being 'shallow'.
You also ask 'how to compare Europe to Singapore?' - well, wasn't that what the expats were doing, comparing life 'at home' to Singapore? I was merely pointing out that of the expats that appeared to be comparing, alot of them made reference to the AUD... I was saying that those who aren't from Australia appear to still be 'saving money' because the cost of living in Europe (I can't speak for USA and other places) is still more expensive than in Singapore. And I did mention that reasons for migration aren't just based on 'money'.
Also, your point about living in Europe being 'more fun' and therefore it's justified to cost more? interesting... pray explain yourself.
The lowest tax in the UK is 22% (that does not include something called National insurance) so the lowest 'tax' is 30%. That does not include of course, mortgage, and living costs... plus council tax and local tax which includes paying for the police, fire etc depts. This all contributes to the higher cost of living, but it does not work out to higher standards. Going to Europe for British people is cheap...so what more going to Asia. As for safer... I can tell you that if I have an 18 year old daughter who wanted to go clubbing and drinking, I'd be more than happy to let her do that in Singapore than in the UK.
Thank you for offering to lend me money - not sure what made you think I needed it, but I'll be sure to look you up when I do!!!
As for the other posters re difficulty of younger generation Singaporeans to move out to their own places...I think it's partly cost, but also partly culture, don't you think? I have a few unmarried Singaporean friends who have moved out but a majority of them are still living at home (at age 30 and above). It's seen to be unnecessary in terms of 'distance' to get to work (unlike say moving to central London and paying 400 pounds a week for a room in a house, when your parents live in North or elsewhere in the UK). Plus, I'd imagine if I tried to broach that subject with my dad, he'd be wondering what was wrong with the house and would be hurt! (my dad though, not sure about other dads).
However, I do agree that living outside of the family home does give one independence and privacy and increasingly due to cost of university education in the UK, more and more university-bound students are choosing to live WITH their parents and therefore choosing to go to university in the same town/city as the one they grew up in. Prior to the introduction of tuition fees, UK students tended to choose to go to University 'as far as possible' from their parents (so to speak!) to gain independence and hope that their parents don't just 'turn up' for a visit.
Nowadays there's an increase in trend of graduates having left university, choosing to go home to live and work, thereby saving money on rent, living costs (food, cleaning)... many parents now can't really retire - ironically enough, since they still need to support their kids!
Anyway, I ramble on... sorry! I guess the main point is, the cost of living in Singapore is probably rising and you can't blame people (foreigners and locals) for complaining...esp if the price hike is so significant in such a short time. I can't offer any solutions I'm afraid, it's just a comment/observation. If prices drive foreigners away, then eventually something will be done about it, whether it's training the locals, promoting the locals, increasing the foreigners' pay, increasing locals pay, lowering prices/taxes etc - I hope.
and Ben...? Singapore's so boring? So what DID you do in the UK on the weekends? Wake up with a hangover..? Go shopping in the numerous malls? or did you really go hiking in the Peak District, visiting the Eden Project, go on the London Eye, visit the many free museums, take in a theatre musical? pop over to Europe? And how did you manage to spend less in the UK? I'd like to know how!
Posted by: Pam | Aug 15, 2007 6:21:30 PM
Oh, please! Singapore is NOT that expensive. I doubt that the posts by the supposed Aussies are Aussies, I mean what's with the Singlish?
Here's a list of the WORLD's MOST EXPENSIVE cities-
http://entrepreneur.com.sg/wordpress/?p=57
Please note that Singapore is NOT one of them. Yes, prices have skyrocketed no doubt, but most of it has been caused by foreign buying of property (40%). So if you tell me that the foreigners are unhappy about the price increase- give me a break. They are only too happy that their investments are paying off.
Posted by: Entrepreneur | Aug 15, 2007 6:46:30 PM
[i]and Ben...? Singapore's so boring? So what DID you do in the UK on the weekends? Wake up with a hangover..? Go shopping in the numerous malls? or did you really go hiking in the Peak District, visiting the Eden Project, go on the London Eye, visit the many free museums, take in a theatre musical? pop over to Europe? And how did you manage to spend less in the UK? I'd like to know how!
Posted by: Pam | Aug 15, 2007 6:21:30 PM[/i]
fo9r me easy
go to whitely
after 10m
wait for the butcher to auction their meats
when finished
go to st michael to see whats on sales
then to sainbury to buy fresh bread
if got enough hands left
alway visit dixon to check the goodies electronic products
hee hee
life was so routined for me
that i come home
a prodical son
and i gok screwed till today
why on earth
i leave dull london for expensive singapore?
Posted by: moshedyan | Aug 15, 2007 7:47:28 PM
Just a quick note that everything you buy in the UK is subjected to a VAT of 17.5%. Compare that to GST of 7%...
Ben - can you explain how you spent a lot less in the UK? I'm quite interested to know how...
DenisNg - Yes, Europe (and UK) has tons of welfare. However keep in mind that the NHS can be really horrendous - with waiting lists, not even being able to see a GP on the same day, and miscellaneous other problems - and personally, I prefer to self-medicate if possible rather than see a doctor/nurse for free on the NHS when I'm sick, simply because of the trouble involved in doing so.
Also - safe? I study in one of the safest cities (and areas) of the UK, and even then I don't feel safe if I'm out after dark. It's definitely nowhere as safe as Singapore is.
And high standard - please explain what you mean by this, as it's a rather ambiguous statement...
Posted by: sk | Aug 16, 2007 12:45:39 AM
The increase in price only benefits the gov. Pam please come to singapore to stay and work, if it is that good. Singapore needs talents like u. Our gov will like u very much.
For those who are earning fat fat now. earn while u can! cos it is temp only! After our gov get all the nice data/graph of growth for the next election, Hee hee..... This is only the begining.....
Posted by: NoFear | Aug 16, 2007 12:52:33 AM
Just a point to note. Are we getting government agents here to post how Singapore is as wonderful as can be again??
Imagine posting another "world-expensive cities comparison" article. Face the truth and look around you, if Singapore is affordable, why do so many people feel the pinch?
You see Singapore is getting "richer" to be compared to Europe and Australia, but the people's personal wealth is decreasing. Previously, we can PLAN to increase our own savings, nowadays the high cost is eatting up so much that we are compromising on our standard of living. You can't say that is a right step to take to build a wonderful nation?? I will think you are seriously out of your mind, or the government is really paying you a lot to lie through your nostrils.
Posted by: June | Aug 16, 2007 1:18:19 AM
NoFear - thank you for inviting me to work in Singapore. Actually, the last time I met the PM a couple of years ago, he invited me to work there too. How can you say that the price increases only benefit the govt? Where do you think funding for improvements to housing, schools, police, military, roads, hospitals etc come from?? And who do these improvements benefit??? Just the govt?
At the moment, I have a great job here and so does my husband... I am expecting our first baby, and I realise that if I am living in Singapore I'd qualify for 3 months maternity leave, whereas over here I get 9 months (but we pay for it through the taxes - you can't have one without the other...). Oh, and by the way, we aren't living on 'expat packages' here...we are on 'local packages'. But hey, if I was in Singapore, I'll have family support, perhaps pay for a maid/nanny and will enjoy eating out every night for the cost of a latte over here. It's a case of giving and taking.
What I don't understand is the bitterness and the negativity in Singapore.... I would like to live in Singapore - so would my husband (and he would be considered an 'expat')...but our jobs are good here now, and we are stable (for the moment). Hence there is no reason to move.Perhaps there will be reasons in a few years time...I don't know. It's the same reason why I lived in Tokyo for 2 years - it was good for me and my career at that time. I saved quite abit of money which helped, but that was by no means the main reason why I moved there.
Why won't those who live in Singapore understand that unless utopia has been discovered and no one has told us about it, there is no perfect place to live on earth. It's a case of compromise - what one compromises on will obviously depend on what one values (money, safety, family, career progression, workmates...etc). I've compromised on family support (but so has my husband) but I think we've made an effort to make up for it by having made good friends, young and older ones - older ones who have decided to be 'surrogate grandparents' to our unborn child.
Anyways... to each his own... I think the grass is always greener on the other side; but I think unless one has lived in the other country for a significant amount of time and understands how the country works, one will never appreciate what one has. If you (in general) are so unhappy with living in Singapore, then you should try and do something to change it...you can leave for a 'better place', get a better job, improve yourself and your society. No point complaining - makes one all bitter and twisted, really.
sk - completely agree with you...:)
Posted by: Pam | Aug 16, 2007 1:33:37 AM
If you want to live a certain lifestyle, Singapore has gotten very expensive. For example, to live around expat grocery stores, have a car (although not necessary), send your kids to a foreign school.
Now overall, Singapore is not too expensive, which is good because most people aren't rich although all they do is dream about being rich.
Regarding the "experience" - I find it interesting to live in a different culture, but I also get the feeling of being in one giant shopping mall in Singapore. It seems there is little to do without shopping or spending money.
Posted by: Winter | Aug 16, 2007 1:50:51 AM
it's the evil landlords...
they are the ones controlling the real estate's prices!!!
we civilians have to take the brunt of their money-making schemes.
we are all victims of their greediness!!!
i also want to settle down in singapore. i want to have a flat that i can call my own. but the price is simply skyhigh...*sob* i can only rent a place for the next 5 years... and yes, for the first time in my 6 years living here, i'm beginning to wonder if i should just leave.
Posted by: elyse | Aug 16, 2007 11:35:55 AM
it's the evil landlords...
they are the ones controlling the real estate's prices!!!
we civilians have to take the brunt of their money-making schemes.
we are all victims of their greediness!!!
i also want to settle down in singapore. i want to have a flat that i can call my own. but the price is simply skyhigh...*sob* i can only rent a place for the next 5 years... and yes, for the first time in my 6 years living here, i'm beginning to wonder if i should just leave.
Posted by: elyse | Aug 16, 2007 11:37:35 AM
no talents...go get foreign talents, no babies..go get foreign babies and stamp them as citizens..no happiness then go out be another's foreign talents
Posted by: ah ger | Aug 16, 2007 2:10:31 PM
There are other perks that make up for the increasing cost of living. For one, the SPGs still fling themselves at me with great gusto. I feel like a god in Singapore.
Posted by: occidental deity | Aug 16, 2007 4:59:15 PM
Those Ang Mo, k n n. Get 5 figures still complain. Think of all the rest of the Singapore Citizens. Ars ole.
Posted by: Gum | Aug 16, 2007 5:20:26 PM
Foreigners do not understand singaporeans' preoccupation with money. They only have to reduce their pay to those of ours to truly understand. Everything is calculated nicely: your salary, HDB loan, CPF so that there is little left to spend on.
But foreigners are no different from singaporeans when it comes to pragmatism. A sharp rise in rentals and they are scrambling to go back home. Nothing wrong, but it shows how cost of living and bread and butter are such basic yet essential issues that if not solved, dominate all other issues.
At least foreigners can go back to their respective countries as equals. Most of us have to stay because we do not have the ability to move on. We cannot move on without becoming second class citizens and working as cooks, plumbers, odd job workers ...
That's why we complain for if we tried to demonstrate, we would end up in jail.
http://trulysingapore@wordpress.com
Posted by: trulysingapore | Aug 16, 2007 9:46:47 PM
I am a Singaporean and a graduate and I have been working for the past 15 years......
In my opinion, I would say that although standard of living in singapore is NOT THAT expensive as compared to Europe, UK, US....but then again, while everything, I mean EVERYTHING, has gone up, my income have been stagnant for 7 years, enough to breed aedes mosquitoes to wipe out singapore! Looking for another job will only mean the same terms, or even worst terms! Trust me, I have tried looking for new jobs many times. Govt say upgrade skills, but where to find $ to upgrade skills!!! Upgrading of meals also got to think 10 times!!
My mother-in-law have been working in a factory earning $600 p/m for the last 10 years.....
My office cleaner, have been in the cleaning industry for 20 years, and he says that he only see his income drop, not increase.....
So standard of living expensive? Really depends on one's disposable income......if you earn good $, it really doesn't matter, but if you earn lousy $, then problemS......so question is are YOU earning good $$ or lousy $$$ in Singapore?
Posted by: singalang | Aug 17, 2007 8:57:59 AM
Show me the money.
Posted by: Noor Hazmee | Aug 17, 2007 10:00:10 AM
Pam, sk, nanashee, shin and no.1 ah beng seem to be more objective, and have commented with a multi-cultural tolerance that stands out amongst the others.
As Pam has pointed out, there really isn't a perfect country (that would have to be Heaven then, wouldn't it?). Where you choose to live is your own decision. Having made that decision, it is really up to ourselves in the end to stand by our actions, live with it and be happy with it. In the end, it's about making the best of what you already have, whether you are a local or a "foreigner".
It'd be a happier world if we choose to see the goodness that's in it than be sour and diss on everything.
Posted by: Jas | Aug 17, 2007 11:06:46 AM
singalang, i think you either 1. graduated with a lousy degree (either chose a lousy course or got lousy grades and/or 2. have poor working capabilities (during times like now, only people with not much capabilities looking for another job get the same terms, or even worst terms).
Posted by: passerby | Aug 17, 2007 1:24:34 PM
It's a capitalist country. It's true that living cost has risen simply because our salaries haven't caught up. It's really very subjective to what one thinks is a good standard of living. For me, it's 3 reasons that I love Singapore: Family, Friends and Food. Singapore is safer than Europe anytime, esp after midnight. I hvnt earned enough to pay taxes, so i've left my regular job for a more flexible one, career is what you make of it. I only OT if i choose to unlike previously. Given the number of shopping malls, i dun even dare to apply for a credit/debit card. Money may talk in Singapore, but you can always choose what you want to talk about, except politics which may land you in jail. Our govt may rule us with an iron fist, but at least we still have peace and security, unlike some first-world countries. That said, if foreigners leave Singapore due to high rental, i guess they dun really love Singapore as much as i do. As for spoilt youths, it's not all of us who are spoilt you know. In my 20s, I may live with my parents, but i do my own laundry, clean my own room, clean after my pets, occasionally contribute to groceries (my mum appreciates my good taste). They in turn clean the rest of the house and provide the odd homecooked dinner. But i wouldn't choose to live without them, it's just sad to come home alone to an empty house. And being born during the "Stop at Two" era, my sis and i dread the moment their health goes to a decline and we are too caught up in our own lives. So we cherish these moments now. We're Asian, and it's just the family, no matter how dysfunctional, that will decide where I will be.
Posted by: Jac | Aug 17, 2007 4:53:53 PM
Everytime I hear expats whining about rising rental and landlord taking advantage of the market, I wanted to laugh. When I was an agent in the bad proeprty market, I have seen my share of unreasonable tenant squeezing the landlords like hell. the rental in singapore was too low in the past. naturally when it surged, expats are shocked and felt that they were being bullied.
Posted by: elsie | Aug 17, 2007 5:57:42 PM
jas likes to commend people who share her thoughts so as to ... commend herself?
no country is perfect, therefore no country is without complains. we aren't perfect so what's wrong with complaining?
while where we live is up to us choose, where we were born isn't up to us. to choose to live where we were not born is to give up the place we grew up in, the familiarity of sights and sounds, the closeness and support of family and the warmth of old friends. you must have a compelling reason to give all that up.
if someone forgot to flush the toilet and there is a strong stench stinking your room. you can either choose to pretend there is no bad smell and continue to eat your breakfast or you go over and flush that damn shit out of your house.
passerby, don't talk too soon, 10 years down the road, the card is again reshuffled and you may end up driving a taxi ...
good point elsie ...
trulysingapore.wordpress.com
Posted by: trulysingapore | Aug 17, 2007 11:47:59 PM
Pam, totally agreed with you... You really would have to live in the other country for a significant amount of time and understands how the country works...and i mean not just there to study for two or three years but to work and live the life the locals...Lastly, how interesting your life is depends on you!
Posted by: justanotherguy | Aug 19, 2007 1:47:14 AM
how come so many fake angmors here ah? all pretending to have skin bleached problem? ang mor dont write like dat.
Posted by: fake ang mor | Aug 19, 2007 12:12:29 PM
passerby, you sound like a young elite....if you are, good for you.....you will NEVER understand, i hope you don't manage people....
If you are not elite, i wish you all the best.......
Posted by: singalang | Aug 20, 2007 8:21:35 AM
Singapore's been a great experience for my family. But I do not understand why prices have increased so much. Is it unrealistic to increase the population so much?
Posted by: PJ | Aug 22, 2007 3:20:55 AM
Heck! I came here to study, I stuck around because I am one of the highest broadband leechers in the country. Sure it hurts when prices and rent increase especially for me , I am not an expat, there are days when I cant buy food. But wtf, I am happy for other things that I wont get back home. I make no money, just enough to stay alive, go on and do what I like doing once the rent/pub/etc is settled I sit and conjure up ideas for the internet. I can go back home to money and I own more than one residential property so no worries there. But like someone said, its not the money for some of us. maybe for the locals, some expats, etc ,their loss. Yeah I love it here. Haha, to think of it I doubt that I will ever get "expat" package unless I quit what I am doing and think money. hmm paradox or oximoron??? makes me wonder.
Posted by: Vangel | Aug 23, 2007 12:32:11 AM
Well i was living in Singapore as a PR for 5 years, i studied at Ngee Ann, i must say it is the best place for anybody seriouss about life and career, its the best place for a family with young chidren there is enough discipline in the society, laws to protect them, iwas reading some comments here, please for heavens sake dont talk about european countries goodness against Singapore, there are a lot of good in Singapore than the bad peopl speak of, yes Singapore is a tough place to stay, because it is the nature of the country that it makes it this way, it small, with almost no resources at all, the only resourse that government has is the manpower. Which i think handled by any standard resonably well.
one thing we should remember is we should not attempt to critisise the good people of Singapore, they are more accepting of the expats than any other nation i can think of.
I have been to 23 countries so far and i have not made friends as genuine as i made Singapore.
Even I left Singapore giving up PR because it is tough to own assets because of the high cost, but its a great country and a great example to the developing world.
if it was part of Malaysia this form stress would not be existing and would be heaven on earth to live actually. But thats political.
Posted by: vasanthabandara | Nov 21, 2007 6:06:17 PM
